A Radical Transformation: At the Table with Miguel Echevarría

Why do you enjoy “Nacho Libre”?

I’m usually engaged in some pretty serious work, whether it’s being in the text, doing research, writing, teaching in class, mentoring students—but “Nacho Libre” is one of those movies, kind of like “Napoleon Dynamite,” where you sort of check out and just have a good time laughing at everything from stretchy pants to some guy getting corn thrown in his eye.

We were at a friend’s house, and we turned it on. Everybody was asleep. Our kids were all asleep, and we were just bellowing. The kids came downstairs like, “What is going on?” It was uncontrollable laughter. And I’ve been hooked ever since.

Actually, the guy who gets corn stuck in his eye looks identical to my dad. So, my kids and I are always laughing at that scene. The scenes and lines of the movie are kind of etched in our minds, so we’re always saying them to each other, cracking jokes about “Nacho Libre.” It seems like a lot of what we do has a “Nacho Libre” joke or scene that we’re appealing to; it’s a humorous thing we have in common as a family.

How is “Nacho Libre” a 21st century version of “Pilgrim’s Progress”?

This is my theory — I’m not going to say how much I actually stand behind it — but I think when you look at “Nacho Libre” and you look at “Pilgrim’s Progress,” Christian was on a pilgrimage or a journey towards the celestial city, and in the same way, Nacho is kind of on this pilgrimage. And along the way, he has this guide, kind of like Christian has Evangelist. Only Nacho’s guide is Esqueleto.

And when Nacho hits this crisis point in his pilgrimage, it’s Esqueleto who goes to him in the wilderness, in this valley, if you will — kind of like how Christian finds himself in the valley — and tells him where he can find the fulfillment of what he’s looking for, and it is in serving orphans. But it’s using his gifts and talents and his love for stretchy pants to benefit the orphans. At the end of the film, he’s now taking the orphans on this field trip to this city, which is kind of like a celestial city, where it all comes together.

The apostle Paul experienced his own story of transformation. Why should we care about his journey?

Paul’s journey is a little different. Paul thought he was good, that he had the right to persecute these Messiah followers who were incorporating Gentiles into the people of God. On his way to persecute these followers of the Messiah, he has an encounter with the resurrected Jesus Christ, the very one whose people he is persecuting. And on his way to persecute them on the road to Damascus — in that encounter — Paul comes face-to-face with Jesus, and he realizes that he is in fact the resurrected Messiah promised to Israel. His whole view of life and the promises to God’s people are radically changed and radically transformed. In so doing, he is transferred from this realm of darkness, by the power of the Spirit, and into this realm of light. He’s a new creation, and he now has a desire to love God and love his people by the power of the Spirit after this radical encounter, this conversion experience he has on the road to Damascus.

His whole view of life and the promises to God’s people are radically changed and radically transformed.

What were some of Paul’s hopes and passions?

When we think of Paul, we have to understand that he was a Jew. It’s easy to take Paul and separate him from his Jewish background, but Paul was looking forward to the redemption of God’s people. He was looking forward to a resurrection, a resurrection into an inheritance — that is, the place that God has prepared for his people. When you look at prophets like Isaiah and Ezekiel, it really is this restored paradise, this new creation for God’s people.

All these hopes come together for Paul in Jesus the Messiah, who now fulfills the promises to God’s people and ensures that God’s people will achieve a resurrection from the dead by the power of the Spirit into the place promised to God’s people. And these people who will dwell in this place include not only Jews but also Gentiles, those to whom Paul is commissioned to go as apostle to the Gentiles.

What are some things that people commonly misunderstand about Paul’s life and writings?

I think one of the things people commonly miss is Paul’s view of the law. It’s easy to think that Paul divorces himself from the law or that Paul has a negative view of the law — he stops becoming a Jew, he thinks the law is bad, he puts aside the law, and he now becomes this law-free Christian, if you will. The reality is Paul is still a Jew, only a Jew who now believes the promises are fulfilled in the Messiah. And one of the expectations or promises to God’s people, take Ezekial 36:25-27, is that the Spirit would enable God’s people to obey. And obedience to God, fundamentally understood as loving God and loving neighbor, is the fulfillment of the laws.

So, Paul doesn’t divorce himself from the law, but he now sees that the law is fulfilled in the person of Jesus, and now we can also fulfill the law by the power of the Spirit in that we can now love God and love neighbor. That which was so difficult for Israel to do, we can now do by the power of the Spirit as members of this new covenant through faith in Jesus Christ.

That which was so difficult for Israel to do, we can now do by the power of the Spirit as members of this new covenant through faith in Jesus Christ.

What advice would you give someone who wants to become a better student of the Scriptures?

I would recommend two things. I would say, read your Bible as a whole, from Genesis to Revelation. Be familiar with the entire story from creation to consummation. The more you read it, the more it becomes part of your bloodstream, and the more you see how these pieces, these stories — like Paul on the road to Damascus or the arrival of the Spirit in Acts or Paul in Romans and Galatians after he talks about justification and the importance of obeying God — how all of this fits into the larger redemptive story focused in the person of the Messiah. And now we are followers of the Messiah who can love God and neighbor as Jesus the Messiah did, and as he demonstrated clearly in giving his life for us.

The second thing is seeing these individual passages as part of this larger story. How do we do that most clearly? I would say we do so in the biblical languages, Greek and Hebrew, if we believe in authorial intent, and I certainly do. I hope you do as well. We see authorial intent most clearly when we read the text in its original language. And one of the ways we do that is by seeing how New Testament authors, for example, draw on Old Testament text as they now show how this story is being fulfilled in Jesus the Messiah. So, it even helps us do biblical theology as we see how Old Testament texts are used in New Testament texts as the story is consummated in Jesus the resurrected Messiah.

Why study New Testament and Greek here at Southeastern?

At Southeastern we have some of the best professors in New Testament that you will find in the evangelical world. We have people who have published widely in their field, whether on Paul or the Gospels or textual criticism. Also, our professors have ministerial experience — not just 10 years ago, but we’re actively serving in our churches now as we serve here at Southeastern.

So, there’s the scholarship, but we also bring that scholarship into the classroom through a very pastoral heart and pastoral experience that we’ve been engaged in for a while. As we do that, we teach you how to do that primarily in the biblical languages so that you might know the word that much more faithfully, do the word, and teach the word that much more faithfully. I think you do that best in Greek and Hebrew.